Interview with Lawrence Grinde by June Chamberland, 2001

June : This is September 8th and I'm going to interview Lawrence Grinde and his wife June and I'm June Chamberland . So if you want to tell me about these roads around here , that's what you wanted to tell me.

Lawrence : You mean the old trails?

June : Actually this ...right.

Lawrence : It came right out the back of the shop , it went right up, you know where the bottom hill went up there just about to Six Mile Lake and it swung around the trail and that came right out to Red Rock Lake . It was still there when we were ... I meant was still used off and on when we were .... and then these other roads , these other trails branched off , one came down the Tabor here , the one that came here followed the Tabor Creek and the other one just into the Buckhorn up to the , where the corner, the corner of the Buckhorn to the right where you seen that guy cutting hay, cause one went through there , went down the creek, come down through where you know where Blooms is there?

June : Blooms

Lawrence : Blooms yeah.

June : No, not really

Lawrence : Peaty farm

June : Is it sod, peat?

Lawrence : That's the people . It came right through there to the south side of that , then followed this . Reason for that was the water. This country's hard to get water in so that's why all the places were built on creeks

June : Oh yeah

Lawrence : I don't say all of them but anything, say half a mile away they were all out, open land ? When we came down here and never been even homesteaded .

June : so what year did your dad come here and homestead? What year did your dad come here?

Lawrence : He didn't homestead. He was here originally in 1912. He came down the Fraser River on the freight scows when they were building the railroad from Tete Jeune and then he went into Prince George . He went to Murch Lake . Do you know where that is?

June : Umhmm.

Lawrence : And homesteaded out there and worked and worked around here for about four years as far as I know. About 1916. Then he went back up to Saskatchewan.

June : Back to Saskatchewan?

Lawrence : Well he came from, actually from when he came here, he came from Minnesota. They came from Norway into the States and then out of the States and he had a brother at Chief Lake , Nels Halland .

June : Oh, Nels Halland.

Lawrence : Yeah, that's a full brother. There's a little bit of a story behind that. LAUGH In the old country, they, his father died I guess when they were very young and they just .....................Nels, his full brother was farmed out to people by the name of Halland and he was kind of a , he held a grudge a little bit. That's how he come to take the name of Halland instead of ...

June : Grinde.

Lawrence : Yeah

June : So you're of Norwegian descent then? So am I.

Lawrence : Yeah. Well my father's side . My mother's supposed to be Norwegian . She came out of teh States around Minneapolis, something.

June : So what was your father's name? First name like?

Lawrence : Lars

June : Lars Grinde and your mother was ...

Lawrence : Alice

June : Alice Grinde. So how many children were there in the family?

Lawrence : Pardon?

June : How many children in your family?

Lawrence : Just the one . She mother had three

June Grinde : Half brothers.

Lawrence : half brothers, I was the only one.

June : But I mean how many did your mother and dad have? Like how many brothers and sisters are there?

June Grinde : No, how many did your mom and dad have ?

Lawrence : My mom had only one . They had one person, me. June ; No actually I asked him how many kids they had.

Lawrence : Yeah, I have no brothers. I have no sisters.

June : Oh an only child.

Lawrence : Yeaah.

June ; So they didn't homestead this place here then?

Lawrence : This place here...well actually on the other side of the creek, this half section, no. It was...well they bought it because when they came out from Saskatchewan and my father came out here before I was with , came out the year before we moved and they had an auction on this land . I guess a hundred dollars down . It was worth that.It was 1500 dollars for half a section . It was, which was a big sum of money.

June : Yes, I guess. I know it's terrible the inflation.

Lawrence : Well you could buy any land around here for $2.50 an acre. Crown land.

June ; So did you say you were three years old when you came here first?

Lawrence : No, eleven.

June : eleven.

Lawrence : I was eleven.

June : You were eleven and your father , of course he was a man, because he came down from Tete Jeune there with the boats.

Lawrence : That's when he first came in.

June : And he was single when he came in at that time?

Lawrence : Yeah, as far as I know anyway.

June : Yeah right, So now Nels Halland and them , did he come down with him too?

Lawrence : No, he was here prior. How he came in, I don't know. Some of this history was never talked about. I don't know but he had a When we came in he was raising foxes and mink out there and he had a mail-order wife if you want the actual .....

June : And they never had no children.

Lawrence : No they didn't.

June : So you're the, you're the only ...

June Grinde : True Grinde

June : True Grinde and the only one that ....

Lawrence : Half brothers they were by the name of Shepherd, a bunch of the offspring.

June Grinde : They're all dead now.

June : Oh yeah.

June Grinde : They're all gone.

June : And that was his wife's , Halland's wife or no your mother's.

Lawrence : Yeah.

June Grinde : First marriage

Lawrence : Mother was married prior to coming here but that was ....she came out of the States.

June : Oh

Lawrence : From Minneapolis. As far as I know , there's not very much said about that. I kind of lost...They never discussed it.

June : They kept it all quiet like. Lawrence and J.G. : Yeah.

June Grinde : I think in those days ...Cough.

June ; Oh yeah people didn't really know their background.

Lawrence : Oh no, it was a different society than what we have today.

June : Yeah right! So okay. I'll start with that little barn up there by Badry's , you know who...

Lawrence : Yeah, that .....

June Grinde : By Badry's

Lawrence : Or across from that. That's on my daughters place .

June : That's on your daughter's place ?

Lawrence : Yeah. That originated ....that dwelling originated down at Buckhorn Lake.

June : Oh it was moved. Hey?

Lawrence : It was tore down and moved up there in 19....oh it was there when we came wasn't it? 46?

June Grinde : We got married in '48.

Lawrence : It was around '46 I think when that was moved, in that bracket, I'm not sure.

June Grinde : Before I came I think.

Lawrence : Well it was before '47, '48.

June Grinde : Because we got married in '48.

Lawrence : That's where it was It used to be down at the...right on the creek. You've been down on the Forestry Road there at Buckhorn just as it starts in.....

June : No, I don't think so,

Lawrence : Willow Cale and the Buckhorn meet.

June : Oh

Lawrence : Where the two of them fork. Just past the forks on the other side where it came out of

June : So who had built it? Do you know?

Lawrence : One time I knew but it's just .....It may come to me but they weren' far as I know there was nobody in it when we came . It had been homesteaded and just abandoned.

June : Hah! So then of course when it when it was moved , do you know who moved it?

Lawrence : Yeah, there was two, ah two Czechs ...Czechoslovakian Andy Simon and John Clement.

June : John Clement and that was Simon, Andy Simon.

Lawrence ; Andy Simon. They were the ones that moved it up and they were on that quarter for ..... they took it up , I guess, bought it and they were on it for about ...Let's see that would be '28, '29 something like that and this country was no good .They were going back to Czechoslovakia and I've never seen them since.

June : Oh is that right?

Lawrence : Yeah LAUGH They were sold and re-sold and another VLA person got it. He only had it for about three years and then threw it up and we got it. We bought it. We bought it from the VLA.

June ; So now that Badry, is that your daughter?

Lawrence : No, no no. That's across the road . You see that one down where them hay stooks are, where they're cutting hay?

June : Yeah, That's the one you're talking about, that cabin.

Lawrence : Yeah

June : Oh

June Grinde : Not the house she's living in.

Lawrence : Oh you mean the one across from Badry? Oh well I thought you were referring to the one that's in that clump of bush.

June : Okay. So that's the one in that clump of bush you were telling me about then.

Lawrence : Yeah

June : Well it's all on tape.

Lawrence : You recorded it then? No, that one, it's on Badry's there. When we come in, it was Lahay's wasn't it?

June ; Yeah you're right.

Lawrence : Lahay's and then it was .......Wasn't it sold afterwards or did he just give it up? I forget. They worked...they used to prospect up our.... little gold-panning up the George Creek area.

June : Oh yeah, the Lahays did ?

Lawrence : Yeah. Then they left here . They moved to the ...

June Grinde : 15-mile road.

June : Oh yeah.

Lawrence : They were down there where the Forestry Nursery is now.

June : Oh yeah. So they lived in....that was their little house?

Lawrence ; That was their little house and then there was another one after that . What the heck was his name? The guy that shot himself? That was back in around '49, '50.

June Grinde : What did he shoot himself for?

Lawrence : Do you want the full story?

June Grinde : Yeah

Lawrence : Joe Dudra wasn't it? No wait a minute. No I don't think so.

June Grinde : No

Lawrence : Well it's not a very pleasant story.

June : Do you want me to shut it off?

Lawrence : Yeah

June : I can always erase it anyway.
June Grinde : You're talking now. It's on.

June : Now we're on.

Lawrence : You mean you didn't have it on? LAUGH

June : You wanted me to take it off.

June Grinde : She took it off for that little bit of gossip there.

June : You've got to be careful what you say on this.

Lawrence ; I mean you don't have to use it but it will give you an insight into some of the stuff.

June : Was trouble ....

June Grinde : You've got to be careful, that's true.

Lawrence : Well that main trail that went back to Red Rock Lake , you know where the endof the Buckhorn is, where it makes a turn..

June : Yeaah

Lawrence : It came out right there. Then it followed down pretty well where the existing road is till you got down to teh next corner and just about just down there's a place right there, that's where it went through.

June : Oh yeah.

June Grinde : Lots of trails.

Lawrence : So now...what else?

June : Ther's another building .....I'm going to show you a picture. I brought some pictures to show you .

Lawrence : I should have had a of those land maps is what you should have.

June : A what?

Lawrence : Land maps.

June : Yeah right. I did have them too.

Lawrence : got them in

June : I do have them. This house here, it's up on the Buckhorn, quite a piece up. It looks in pretty good shape There's a lady has a house right here.

Lawrence : On the Buckhorn Road?

June : Yeah

Lawrence : Where

June : Up probably two-three miles up.

Lawrence : Hmph.

June : This road up here, that's the Buckhorn.

Lawrence : Yeah

June : Yeah, two - three miles up.

Lawrence : Past the corner?

June : Yeah, past the corner, past your daughter's .

June Grinde : Hey, yeah, you pass the corner and you still go further up?

June : Yeah.

June Grinde : That's old Feldeau. He lived in there for a while

Lawrence : Miners.

June Grinde : Yeah

Lawrence : That's where old Miner's ....There's a little creek crossed just on the one side.

June : I think so.

Lawrence : That's Miner's, yeah.

June Grinde : It's on this side , because Miner's . You just go's Sheila's. You go down the Buckhorn Rd this way and you turn this way and you go down that way and it's on this side .

Lawrence : About half a mile on that side.

June Grinde : Isn't it?

June : Yeah, probably. Because there's an old shack inside there.

Lawrence : It's right next to the road isn't it?

June : Yeah it's real close. I just about missed it hey and then I seen this old house

June Grinde : That would be Miner's because remember they rebuilt , done some work on that or something.

Lawrence : Yeah

June Grinde : Yeah that would be Miners.

Lawrence : But who the heck....

June : Built in 1924 the lady told me.

Lawrence : 1924, I was just wondering , I think that was Aitken because the only guy down that road in 1936 was a guy across the road where they got that new house built up there , by the name of Bottomley.

June : Bottomley?

Lawrence : Yeah. That was the only one on the Buckhorn Road at that time .

June Grinde : I'm sure that was Miner.

Lawrence : The whole thing was vacant.

June : Oh

June Grinde : The lady's living by herself in a little shack.

Lawrence : And where that other road I'm saying went back.

June : Well she's got a better house than that I think. It's not very big, I don't think.

June : Grinde : No it's right over on this side of it.

Lawrence : That is it, That's the one.

June : Maybe ten feet apart or something. Then there's other people living down just below the gully thing,

Lawrence : Yeah

June : So that is Miners you say?

Lawrence : Well that's who lived there, that's who had the place.

June : A long time ago?

Lawrence : What was that guy from Saskatchewan ? He built the little house.

June : You mentioned a Snell?

Lawrence : Like I said, those buildings when we come

June Grinde : What was his name? Lost a child"

Lawrence : They were vacant though.

June : Oh they were vacant?

Lawrence : There was nobody there.

June : So they are old?

Lawrence : They are definitely old and we, I would have known because the only one on thee road was Bottomley.

June : Yeah. Huh! And he was across the road.

Lawrence : He was across the road just about where that big house is built up there.

June : Yeah. There's an old barn, kind of a piece of old barn

Lawrence : Could be the old original site , yeah.

June Grinde : MacLennans used to live ...Didn't MacLennans live in that little old shack? Wade MacLennan?

Lawrence : Well he was after. Bottomley was first. VLA . He was a VLA

June Grinde : He was in there and he lost his daughter, same thing as I had, Bright's Disease when I was eight.

Lawrence : Yeah but this is not, this is not relating back to this building.

June Grinde : No, no.

Lawrence : This is people that were a lot more recent.

June : Yeah, yeah. See if I got the number of this place I could always look it up in the Land Office and find it.

Lawrence : Yeah you'd have to go back.

June : So I'll have to ask that lady again . Do you know the name of the lady?

June Grinde : Dot Miners.

June : Dot Miner is that who

June Grinde : Yeah that's her name and that's her son that lives in this here house across that little house.

Lawrence : Is she an older person?

June : Yeah

June Grinde : She's an older person.

June : I think so.

June Grinde : She's an older person., She's not very tall.

June : No, I don't think she was very big. I just saw her and talked to her and asked her what she knew about the house , like if I could take a picture of it and she said it was built in 1924 but she didn't know the name of the people who owned it.

Lawrence : I don't know who built it either . It was long before, long before war-time.

June Grinde : It was just down like that down the Buckhorn, you go up the Buckhorn here and you turn this road, on this side and it's the only one there.

Lawrence : It's the only one, it's the only one down in there.

June : It's the only old house on the road.

Lawrence : The one just you come to the end of the Buckhorn where it makes a turn there and your whatcha-macallem road goes here . Well the, the place right here Pete Sabadash. He's still living in the house that was there years ago.

June : Is that right?

Lawrence : It used to be Alex Farr at one time.

June : Pete Sabadash?

Lawrence : yeah just as you make the turn , he's still in the same....I'm sure he's still in that saame place.

June Grinde : He's still in the same house

Lawrence : He's still in the same house. See that was built ....

June : That would be an interesting place to take a picture of then hey?

Lawrence : Yeah. It was ....

June Grinde : You go straight down to the end of Buckhorn . You just turn this way and then you'll see it right there.

Lawrence : It's the first ...there's a little, field at the end there . It's just up on the side there.

June Grinde : Before you go to Scott Road , you don't turn to Scott Road. It's ... just turn to Buckhorn and you see it straight ahead of you.

June : So how many miles would you say it's from here ? But from the corner?

Lawrence : Well the 4-mile stretch on the Buckhorn

June : That's as long as it is

Lawrence : Right at the end of it.

June : Grinde : Before you make the turn you'll see it.

June : I didn't quite go to the very end. I went ...

Lawrence : Well to get this, you had to, you had to go round the corner. LAUGH

June Grinde : See this ones before you get there. This was before you get to this one. Straight ahead. Lawrence: No, Sabadash is straight off the end here. Like when you're going down here, it's the Lund coming in here . Two miles further . Two miles of highway here and two miles further.

June Grinde : Yeah. You can see him right ahead.

Lawrence : Two miles ahead, the road takes a sharp turn and goes this way. First up the road is where this one is.

June : Yeah I know there was some turns and twists.

June Grinde : First driveway.

Lawrence : Right here, just go like this and in this way and I'm sure he's living in that same house.

June Grinde : But you'll see the house from the main road though before you make the turn even, you'll see it.

Lawrence : Yeah

June : Oh yeah.

Lawrence That was there...They homesteaded it

June : Is it logs or is it of boards? Or has it been redone?

Lawrence : I don't remember. I wired the stupid thing and I don't remember. LAUGH

June : Anyway I'll look it up the next time I go down that way,

Lawrence : Check it out anyway.

June Grinde : All you have to do is just before you make the turn , you'll see the house, it's plain.

Lawrence : And the guy that homesteaded that, that quarter was a guy by the name of Alex Farr.

June : Alex Farr?

Lawrence : He used to live down here on Tabor Creek on the Bendixon which is just across the creek in an old house up on top of the hill , that's where he used to live , but it's not the house that was there then, that was built quite a few years after.

June : Yeah okay. Then there's that barn. It's on Marilyn Murrays. Do you know anything about .............

Lawrence : Oh back here?

June : Yeah

Lawrence : Yeah that was, used to be over across , just on the creek aways, just where that patch of bush is there.

June : Do you know who lived in that?, who built that?

Lawrence : Lund.

June : Lund? That's Lund's barn hey?

Lawrence : That's Lund's old place .

June : That's what I was saying to her " I wonder if this isn't Lund's because I know he told me it was moved". Hey? He's 94 years old.

Lawrence : See the house , the original log house that was on there, a guy by the name of, well it changed hands twice . Two Swiss guys got it or one, just one I think -no there was Krabbs and Kindell and he got a fire and burned it down. He burnt, the house burnt.

June : Lund's house?

Lawrence : Yeah, the old original house.

June : After they were gone?

Lawrence : A long time afterwards because they were gone when we came. They went to town. I guess Lund, Gus Lund himself, he was only, pretty young because he used to yak about going down the creek fishing trout out of the creek.

June : Yeah he told me how the horses ran away one time and he managed to stop them in the creek there somehow. I don't know whether......

Lawrence : LAUGH

June Grinde : He's getting pretty old,

June : He's 94. Yeah I went to see him last winter.

Lawrence : Well that's the original old log place.

June : Okay well that's one place......

Lawrence : And I wonder if that Wilson , the old Wilson place has burnt or been tore down

June Grinde : Who Wilsons?

Lawrence : Yeah

June Grinde : Johnny Wilson?

Lawrence : Just across the, no that's the new one. The old log original barn.

June Grinde : Oh

Lawrence : It was just straight where the Wilson road is up here . That's the next one going that way. Right at the end of that across the creek there was a ...June G. Oh yeah, where Mrs. Wiebe lives now.

Lawrence : The other side, they were on the other side of the creek. June G: Oh

June : So where's Wilson Road? Is it up....

Lawrence ; Just the next one, the next one

June : Oh you're going down Buckhorn and it....

Lawrence : No, no, no

June Grinde : You got to go this way.

Lawrence ; Which way did you come in?

June : I came in from Bendixon way.

Lawrence : Well alright, you go to the top of the hill there , you see that road going in. It's the Wilson road.

June Grinde : It goes this way.

June : Oh yeah and it hasn't got no name on it, right?

Lawrence : Could be . I don't know whether the old buildings are still there . Some of them have been destroyed I know

June : But it's across from Mary Anne Wiebes hey?

Lawrence : Yeah

June : Marilyn Murray was telling me about Mary Anne Wiebe , that I should go see her too.

June Grinde : Yeah,. Yeah

Lawrence : Give you a little bit more of the ....I don't know whether the buildings exist. I know the barns were destroyed because they were out in the field there and they're gone but the house was right smack....

June Grinde : That old Turner place, that's the original house. In the bush, that log house, isn't it?

Lawrence : Yes, that goes back , that goes back to a long time ago.

June : Where is that?

Lawrence : That's on....You come down the Cummings to where the Cummings and the Pinko meet on the right hand side.

June : Right hand side.

Lawrence : Yeah

June : Cummings and Pinko.

Lawrence : Yeah, where they meet. If you're coming down the Cummings and you cross Tabor Creek you go up hill there on the top, on the right hand side .

June Grinde : See when you're coming down Cummings and you come down the Pinko but you've got to go a little bit further because it's right back in the bush here.

Lawrence : It's right on top of the ......You go past the Pinko.

June : Can you see it from the road?

June Grinde : If you look real close you can see it.

Lawrence : Yeah

June : Probably in the fall you'd see it better hey?

June Grinde : Yeah. That there was ...old Turner lived there.

Lawrence : Walter Turner.

June : Walter Turner.

Lawrence : He was there when we came here.

June Grinde : That house there. It's still the original house there.

June : Oh yeah. So that would be real old too then?

June Grinde : Yeah

Lawrence : That place was there prior to 1936 and maybe quite a bit past that.

June Grinde : Then that old house down here on the Lund Road that's Phillip Deseaults.

June : It was Phillip Deseaults. How do you spell Deseaults? Would you say.....

Lawrence : Ask the Frenchman. LAUGH Maybe he can.

June : I went and took a picture of it today.

June G : You did hey?

Lawrence : You could find that in the Land Registry .June ; Oh I know how to spell it . D-e-s-e-a-u-l-t, something like that. I could look in the phone book, get the name.,

June Grinde : Yeah, Phillip Deseault.

Lawrence : But he was there . He homesteaded that originally.

June Grinde : Phillip was his name.

June : And how long ago would that be probably

Lawrence : Prior to 1936.June ; That's when you came here, in 1936.Lawrence ; Yeah I can't go back past that . He was here. How old is May Wilson? How old was she when you came up here in '48?

June Grinde : Well she was married wasn't she?

Lawrence : 36. I think May was ... in 36 , 37 she was in Grade 8. ( approximately 14)NOTE : That would put her born in 1923. If she was 15 or 16 she would have been born in 1920, 21.

June Grinde : Was she '36. We got married in '48.

Lawrence : Yeah. Well it would put her around 15 or 16 in them days.

June : 37 - 8 years That would've been 8 from 37. Be '29, 1929. She'd be Grade one. Note : This is wrong figuring.

Lawrence : He was there.

June : Oh he was there in 1929?

Lawrence : That's an old story behind it. LAUGH

June : Do you want me to take it off?

June Grinde : Take it off.


June Grinde : The old house. Yeah because we went by it the other day and we didn't see it.

Lawrence : Was the barn there?

June Grinde : There was a shack there or something because remember that Em and Austin built that house and they lived in it at the last.

Lawrence : They must have tore the old one down.

June Grinde : They must have tore...because it's gone.

Lawrence : That was there when we came.

June Grinde : They built that other house. They lived there. See a lot of that stuff has been destroyed over the years.

June : Yeah I put it on again now because we're talking

Lawrence : Yeah. A lot of them old buildings have been destroyed.

June : Oh yeah, well this is why I started doing this thing because I thought, well ,I started because I like old buildings hey?

June Grinde : Yeah, some of them are neat.

June : And then I find this ones burnt after you take pictures of it and that one's being tore down and I thought " well I got these pictures but it would be kind of nice to share them with other people hey? And what are you going to do with a bunch of pictures?

Lawrence : Yeah

June Grinde : Did you see that one up at Blackburn School? That's the old Blackburn house.

June : Yeah, the old Blackburn house, yeah.

Lawrence : That was there when we came too.

June Grinde : It was moved way down past Veekens in there before.

June : That was built 1912 I think hey?

Lawrence : Yeah because it was there when we came.

June : Okay another question, wracking your brain! The corner of Pooley and Johnson, LenThony's two barns there , do you know when they were built? Or who built them?

Lawrence : I don't know . They were built prior to '36. I'm not sure of the year.

June : Yeah

June Grinde : They were here before we came.

June : Yeah. Both of them hey?

Lawrence : Yeah

June : So they're old.

Lawrence : Well them barns are sunk right down. The ceilings are only about 4 feet off the ground. They used to be ......the guy that owned them was Mann.

June Grinde : Harold Mann? What one was Harold Mann on?

Lawrence : I don't know. I know the other, the Mann across the road from that . That's where the sub-division is on. That was Mann and then .......................... That place was where they lived at. I think but you could find that out from Harold Mann. He works at the Chev outfit.

June Grinde : Wood Wheaton and Chev?

Lawrence : Wood Wheaton. Harold Mann.

June : Yeah. Harold Mann.

Lawrence : He would be able to fill you in on that .

June : Because Len didn't know .... he knew about Deit and he knew about Pooley but he didn't.....

Lawrence : Who was that?

June : Len Thony.

June Grinde : The younger boy of Thony's .

Lawrence : See that was the point

June Grinde : Well his mom is still living. You should see his mom.

June : Yeah she's still around.

Lawrence : I think she came in around 1938 if I'm not mistaken. There was a bunch of them came. Thony's and Proppes and Krabbs , Dulbarker ? There was 4 - 5 Swiss families and Banzer. Banzer came in too at that time.

June : Yeah

Lawrence : And prior to that them places were vacant.

June : So they probably were built up and then they were left for awhile hey?

Lawrence : Well they moved into town. They all went to town. Lunds went to town and some of the places, the old places, they went south.

June : Yeah

Lawrence : I don't know where they ...See when we came in here on this road here, there was only, we were the only ones and Phillip Deseault up here. The only two on this stretch.The one that Murray is on , pardon, the one on this side of Murray, the one that Wood has got there across , they got that motor home and stuff, see where that nice lawn is cut, small house sitting there . You must have seen it when you went by.

June : Probably, yeah

Lawrence : Just before you come to the creek.

June : Just before you come to the creek,

Lawrence : That used to be Newcombe place There was a log house on that. That burnt down.

June : Yeah alot of them burned down.

Lawrence : Yeah. A guy by the name of Leidl came in from Saskatchewan. Biggar, Saskatchewan.They were living there yet and they got it on fire somehow and she went up in smoke.

June : Okay. This is kind of not in your territory but on the Highway south here this barn, I don't know if it was Burke or Burt was the last name of the man . Now whether that's's about, it's right by the machinery there, some of that old machinery there, just at the end of Buckhorn road actually, right at the end of Buckhorn Road, but on the other side of the highway.

June Grinde : Oh that's where them old steam engines and stuff were.

June : Yeah

Lawrence : I know but this doesn't date back to this building.

June : The building is very old.

Lawrence : I don't...there's another one, see most of the places here were vacant when we came in so I know some of the names close, the people. There used to be a log house back here . It was torn down and the guy I guess he cleared about 40 acres on that quarter and I don't know where he disappeared. Klotz was his name. So there actually was very few people out here in '36.

June : Yeah it sounds like there wasn't too many . Did you know anybody by the name of Hendricks? This one here you can see right up on sort of a hill , it's right by....I think it's Tabor Creek , either Tabor or the other one. And this barn was at the backbut this would be the house, but it's still there. I just took these a couple of weeks ago.

Lawrence : You don't know the exact position do you

June : Yeah, it's right up on the hill, sideways like and it's ... there's a fence and you could walk right up to the fence and take a picture over the fence , it's quite close hey? But I went to see the lady and we walked in.

Lawrence : How far down?

June : Ah, it's between the two creeks I think, between Tabor and ....

Lawrence : Cale?

June : Cale

Lawrence : On that side?

June : On that side, on the right hand side of the highway. Anyway it was supposed to be a guy named Hendricks that owned it. Did you ever hear of anybody called Hendricks?

Lawrence : Well I might have but it wasn't somebody I was really aquainted with.

June : Yeah

Lawrence : If he was still there when we were in ........?

June : Like I say those were kind of far away. I just thought, well sometimes .... five minutes in them days was .....

Lawrence : The best way to trace them down if you want to go through the Land Registry

Lawrence : I've got one here but I don't know off hand where it is. The old homestead maps. It shows all the land quarters, everything else.

June : With the names on it too?

Lawrence : No, but you can pick up ..........END OF TAPE"SIDE II

June : The names, the names of the people too. I've got to write some letters to the Government and see if I can get some land...............

Lawrence : Well these pre-emption maps.... I think what they called them one time . I know I've got one here but I've got ....where did them air - aviation maps of mine went to, but the only problem, some of them roads existing now, were not on them. You'd have to know the area to plot them in , you know, where they went through. This whole area was surveyed years and years and years ago, the whole valley.

June : So did you know the Blackburns too then?

Lawrence : Yeah, they were the....the Blackburns at the end. Down here we had the Pinkos.

June : Oh yeah. So did your dad farm here then when he was here?

Lawrence : Yeah, that's what he came out for, to make a living. He bought out, he came out of Saskatchewan . He left there. He had one of these Settlers Effect cars, you know. Like a railroad car, a boxcar. They were only allowed x number of weight, so many tons in the car and it was a given rate. They'd pull it from Saskatoon right to Prince George It was a low rate freight but when he loaded it out, he had cattle, he had horses, loaded up all his machinery and he ended up paying half his pay for ? Extra freight because he was ...

June : Over the weight?

Lawrence : Over the weight. LAUGH And that's where they made the ....they come in, they milked the cows, peddled butter, cream around Prince George the first summer because he had no money. I think he wound up with nine dollars and some cents in his pocket after he paid the freight and that house made .......They had built right across the creek over here where Meise lived....... well them old buildings , well the old barn was just tore down a year ago. You missed that one.

June : Too bad.

Lawrence : LAUGH It was vacant at the time so they moved in there for the summer and by fall he had a house and shelter for the cattle and stuff built. The old home place.

June : Yeah. So the old home place was this place here? It was across .......

Lawrence : It was just before you get to the creek.

June : On the other side?

Lawrence : Yeah, on this side of the creek, side of the road.

June : Oh, this side of the creek?

Lawrence : Yeah. This side of the road. Not the white house. There's a bunch of trees. You can hardly see the house there.

June : Yeah. I tried all them roads.

Lawrence : This is just a lane. It's this quarter we're on here that joins that quarter.

June : Oh yeah and you had the two quarters?

Lawrence : And there's an 80-acre piece that was split . That was the transaction of half a section . They sold the one quarter to a Swiss guy and he couldn't pay . He paid nothing to clear off one quarter, then he split it and another guy bought the 80 and that way they cleared off the....... That's how tight the money was. I mean there was nothing.

June : No. Pretty tough times.

Lawrence : It was a rough life for the people . There's just no two ways about it.

June : So where did you go to school then?

Lawrence : Well you know where the Pineview Hall is when you come out? There was a school right there

June : Was that Pineview School then or was it something else?

Lawrence : I don't know what they called it.

June Grinde : It burnt down, didn't it?

Lawrence : Yeah, that burnt down. It was right where the hall sits, exactly. There was two schools in this area south of Prince George. The one at Blackburn was on the old Giscome Highway just across the ...

June : Was that the Thompson School?

Lawrence : Could have been. I think the old concrete foundation was up about 6 - 8 feet in the air. I think that's still there.

June : Maybe that school is gone because that other school is still supposed to be there.

Lawrence : Well this was just , you know when the Giscome Highway turns off at the Airport there? It was only about 1/2 mile on that same side. That was the ......That took in that area and the one up here took in everything from the Sintich trailer court. They walked from there to the school here. They took that whole ..............and there was no buses , no nothing. They walked. Six years old , they walked.

June : And how many miles would that be?

Lawrence : Well they came down in ...they'd come down whereabouts the airport makes that turn and they swung off and they come down where the Holmes Road crosses and straight in. So it's quite a hike.

June : Quite a little hike. Must be five miles anyway.

Lawrence : There was no, there was no ploed roads . It was ... this country here , the government never plowed no roads . Even down in 1943, 44 these roads were not plowed.

June : Huh!

June Grinde : Well you plowed them a few times.

Lawrence : '48, '48. One winter I used the cat. I plowed it from where the mail was out at the highway and I plowed this one down to the Bendixon . I used to go down with my own cat. Never got paid for it but they had no equipment. They couldn't plow roads . It was rough!

June : So what was the main bush around here then? Was it, was there big trees here or was it ......

Lawrence : This area through here , in places there was five feet of windfall.

June : Five feet of windfall?

Lawrence : Yeah and this stuff, when we first was down on that quarter, on the home place , there was .......had to saw them up , pile 'em and burn 'em.

June : Was there a big wind went through or something?

Lawrence : Hey?

June : Big wind went through?

Lawrence : No, fire.

June : Fire, oh.

Lawrence : 1922. I think it was '22. Prior to that even. The second fire that came up over the mountain here. The centre of it was burnt years ago . That was burnt this way not too long. Could have been 1920 because this fire was not too long before we came and it was started by that place next to Murrays . The guy that owned that, Newcombe started that fire. He was clearing land and it got away on him . It went up over the mountain . That was another thing that the Government didn't care , they never tried to put the fires out or nothing.

June Grinde : Help yourself. Chocolate chip cookies.

Lawrence : A lot of the country gets burnt up with the Talk of cookies.


Lawrence : I don't know any of the back history . Mother had a sister down in the States. She had some off-spring down there but they were typical Americans.

June Grinde : But Ole was the only one you knew on Dad's side.

Lawrence : Ole Nelson. Ole was still in the old country.

Lawrence : Kind of interesting country the way it went ? Because it didn't start to pick up till 1939.

June : Once the war....

Lawrence : 1939, yeah.

June : Once the war started, yeah, because the depression was first.

June Grinde : It started in .....

Lawrence : 1929. I remember enough of it but we never went hungry but you sure didn't have anything fancy to eat.

June Grinde : Had lots of milk and eggs , you know.

Lawrence : It was just what..... basics , which didn't hurt a guy of course. June ? - No, it was good actually.

Lawrence : Yeah, it was better maybe.

June Grinde : A guy was talking the other day. I met him at Murrays and he was saying ...They were just talking about it, him and his wife and they were saying those days were better than they are now. People were more friendly and everything.

Lawrence : Well the difference between then and now , now you're chasing the dollar, well you got to chase it and that's what the younger people's got to do . They want....There's too much out there to get . They buy too much and they're in debt. Then they got problems with it.

June : Umhm.

Lawrence : That has a lot of problems with everything, marriage, the whole thing. No, them days all you had to worry about was a place to hang your hat , enough to eat and some clothes.

June Grinde : That was a way better.

June : And when did you have your first car? Do you remember?

Lawrence : Which?

June : When did your dad have his first car here?

Lawrence : Not too long after, a few years after they come. He got an old ......

June Grinde : Jewett, wasn't it?

Lawrence : Jewett.

June : A Jewett!

Lawrence : Yeah, did you ever hear of that name?

June : No

Lawrence : LAUGH - I don't know what outfit built it.

June Grinde : Yeah I can remember you telling me about it.

Lawrence : But then of course it was only used once a week.

June Grinde : That was expensive those days, wasn't it?

Lawrence : No. The fuel was nothing but there was no money. Most of the the winter time you never used itbecause you couldn't. You had horses.

June Grinde : We had battery radios and boy! You didn't listen to the radio.

Lawrence : You'd buy a set of ..... like the radios in them days , they had a two-volt wet cell and there was a big tri-pack , if I remember right about that , about that deep and that would last the winter . It had to last the winter.

June : And didn't you have to have radio licences in them days?

Lawrence : Not that I know of.

June : No?

Lawrence : I think there was something to that effect but not everybody did it and they didn't enforce it.

June : No, maybe not.

June Grinde : They had a dog license too. I know when we were kids but a lot of people didn't.

Lawrence : Actually Law Enforcement as far as game regulations and the offenses for it was worse than it is today.

June : Really?

Lawrence : Catch you shoot a moose out of season and it was six months in the can.

June : If you got caught hunting out of season?

Lawrence : Yep.

June Grinde : Old Jenks was a real game warden.

Lawrence : And they, and they weren't slouching around like theses guys today.

June : No, hmm.

June Grinde : They went out there to do their job . They didn't give a darn whether it was a mother, a brother, or who it was. He didn't care who it was, old Jenks.

Lawrence : Oh that old bugger. He was alright.

June Grinde : Oh yeah. He was a good guy.

Lawrence : Old Jenks was good . As long as you were on the right side of the law he was a hell of a good guy.

June : I know. I remember that name when we first came here.

Lawrence : One guy, it was out west of town, a friend of old Al's. He was on the road. "Oh" he says " I see you got a nice shotgun there" . "Yeah" the guy says" I just bought it". " Can I see it?" he says. He picks it up and it was loaded. " I guess you boys will have to learn the hard way" . He was in to court. LAUGH. Talking about flowers and freezing.

Lawrence : There's quite a story behind that too, you know. He ( Jenks) came from Peace River . It was getting a little too close. The rifle bullets were getting too close so he had to get out of there.

June : Oh yeah.

Lawrence : He was shot at a couple of times, I guess.

June : You're kidding!

Lawrence : I guess they didn't appreciate somebody .....

June Grinde : Hammering them all the time.

Lawrence : Well actually you didn't have to. You could go and get a permit to get a bull moose any time of the year or you needed it. There was no reason to.....

June : Break the law, like.

Lawrence : Yeah. They'd give you a permit to go get one . That's what he lived on when he first came out, the first summer. I think it was , he come out in May and I think June he went and got a permit and went out to Buckhorn Lake and shot a moose.

June Grinde : I canned pears today. I done 23 jars.

Lawrence : And then it had to be canned immediately too, especially summertime , it was all canned. The meat was all canned. It had to be. There was no way of keeping it.

June Grinde : We canned meat.

June : I guess it was either can it or salt it I suppose. I think canning is better.

June Grinde : We browned it a little bit and then throw it in the jar and it would form it's own juice and cook it ...

Lawrence : There was no refrigeration in those days

June Grinde : We did chicken and everything when I was married even we did.

Lawrence : That's what I can't figure out, all this here food safety stuff, all the ....

June Grinde : Yeah all

Lawrence : Gee whiz we must have died

June Grinde : All I use is the stupid boiler. I can meat and everything in a boiler.

June : I don't use a pressure cooker. Talk about canning.

Lawrence : No I can safely say we never went hungry.

June : No that's good. I think the majority of people that were on the farm didn't go hungry because you had your cows

June Grinde : Milk and chickens

Lawrence : Livestock

June : Garden

June Grinde : Yeah, canned everything.

June : If you went hungry it was kind of your own fault because you didn't look after yourself I guess.

June Grinde : Yeah, well I still can carrots , I can pickled beets, make butter beets . I do everything

Lawrence : There was no argument about looking after them in them days . You had to look after them.

June Grinde : He's my pickle man. It happens to be that every time I got dill pickles , it just happened that it rained or something that he could give me a hand

Lawrence : Standing there peeling them cursed things.

June Grinde : He only peeled them when he came in after plowing because he finished the plowing and I had half a , another half a box left, so he peeled them and then I quartered them . So then I put them in salt water so they don't turn brown. When I'm ready I put them in a jar

Lawrence : Yeah you get four horses out in front of the single bottom plow with two handles on it walk all day, I've done that. Curry them, water them, feed them , look after them , then when you'd had your breakfast, go out and hook 'em up, make a little furrow about that wide across the field . It takes a long time, I'll tell you. It wasn't too big of a field so I had ...

June Grinde : Would you like some more?

June : Just half a cup, please.

Lawrence : I don't know what they'd do today if they had to do it.

June : I don't know, that's hard to say. They would think they were real hard done by. I think that that would be the best thing they ever did though would be to put these young kids each on a plot of land and let make them make a living for themselves.

June Grinde : I think so.

June : But I don't think the Government wants to do that ,they don't want people on the land. They want them to put them all in the boxes in the city there.

June Grinde : Well Lawrence said what's happening and I can see exactly what's happening. They don't want you to think. They don't want the kids to think for themselves and this is what they're doing now.

June : They want control of your mind.

Lawrence : Well it's just

June Grinde : The kids can see it coming. We can see it coming anyways.

Lawrence : Actually I'd like to know what the big master plan is.

June : Me too

June Grinde : I don't like it.

Lawrence : Because alot of things that ten , fifteen years ago, we got them today. And they were yapping about it then.

June Grinde : But now they want the kids in the union. It was on the TV they want the school

June : Kids to be in the Union?

Lawrence : No, it was something to teach them about the benefits of union.

June Grinde : Now you don't need that to teach the kids that kind of crap. Parents were against that. I don't know what happened. Talking about mixing people up on their cash registers, no one knowing their times tables, the good cream bought at Shoppers - Northern White. Good for whipping, etc. Same price. Comes from Telkwa. When it sours it is sour cream. Not junk.

Lawrence : No, I had the big sum of from 1936 to 1939 that's all the schooling I had. Three years of school. We never went to school on the prairies, we were eight miles from school and we never went to school there but you learn it afterwards. Maybe they can't do it now

June Grinde : There isn't a thing he can't do. Electrical, we do , he built the whole house by himself. He made gears on the machine

June : You can read though

Lawrence : Oh yeah . I read and figure. We were taught the mathematics and I learned how to read.

June : You probably know more than the Grade twelves.

Lawrence : The Times Tables, the whole thing either that or else you got'd be sitting in school after doing your work. Well I mean any of the stuff, I don't care what it is, if you want to learn it there's nothing that can stop you if you learn it. Like I was prospecting for a few years as kind of a hobby around you know and I was using geo-chemistry applied the Mineral explorations where you take the soil samples out of streams and stuff and you analyze it for mineral content and parts per million.

June : You can do that?

Lawrence : Yep.

June Grinde : Him and I went geo-cheming. Talking about chemicals, copper, water, etc.

June : I'll tape that one. When you got up in the morning your water pail had ice on it.

Lawrence : It wasn't too warm. Then you'd get a dull cross cut. I hated that with a passion. A dull crosscut to cut wood for that monster.

June : Two horrible things hey?

June Grinde : I still got my crosscut though. I've got to give the kids each one.

Lawrence : I tell you one thing that keeps your head working to get out of work wasn't too, well it was wild but it wasn't too long before there was a buzz saw there .

June : Oh yeah

Lawrence : LAUGH

June : Cut your wood by machine.

Lawrence : That business, doing this you know, it took a long time to go through a block and all dry pine, it was a little hard

June : So who cut wood with you then? Or did you have a one-man crosscut?

Lawrence : One- man .

June : One-man crosscut, oh yeah, pretty hefty. It'd make you strong anyway.

Lawrence : I hated them things, I hated them with a passion.

June Grinde : He's strong. He's 76 years old and he's strong and I'm 75 so .....

Lawrence : Yeah but you're only I was only 11 when I come, 12 , 13 and you're out pulling the ...

June Grinde : He's strong.

Lawrence : I don't know why they ...

June : Scandinavians are strong ...

Lawrence : It doesn't hurt anything.

June : No , of course not.

June Grinde : Well he was run over in 1971 and with a combine. What happened? Your dad didn't want , it was like a snowmobile

Lawrence : The clutch on it, the drive wasn't the same as a Home , hydraulic ............., opened it up there was a belt, there was a wide belt and heavy . It would open up and there was a clutch stop. . Dad was running it at the top of the hill where the big house is

June Grinde : We told him to shut it off till we brought the granary up.

Lawrence : And I brought a granary up with the cat , come up on the wrong side, on the opposite side of the machine and he tipped it, like hit it where a stump had dug out and he dug the table and he had a bunch of dirt in the corner, like in the one corner of it and he was in cleaning it out and just as I come up, the machine just snapped in , he didn't lock it out

June Grinde : He was cleaning the teeth out ....

Lawrence : He had her wide open, the engine wide open and second gear and he didn't go from here to the wall and 70 miles an hour and going over the guards. I tried to go over on the wrong side and didn't make her . ( Can't make this out)

Lawrence : Don't ask me I don't remember too much.

June : Was it in the field, like?

June Grinde : Yeah

June : That's probably what saved you, the field.

June Grinde : Well it was soft and his coat kind of , his coat it was all tire marks on it.

Lawrence : Broken shoulder , eleven ribs, broken shoulder blades, punctured lung. Had the works. I don't remember too much the first three, four days in the hospital. I was completely sedated, drugs they were pushing into you

June Grinde : They couldn't believe he lived . They couldn't believe it. Even after he come home I had to put my arms like underneath this part and then bring him up, we put him on a rollaway cot in the front room because it was better there and then I'd bring him up like that , then he could go to the bathroom but he couldn't bring up himself.

Lawrence : I know that's what happened the shoulder yet, it just felt , nothing left but .....

June Grinde : You're lucky to be here dear. I'm lucky.

Lawrence : No ribs left, shoulder blades are broke.

June Grinde : I said I'm lucky that I got you now.

Lawrence : Well the part of it is they were too full up above and they didn't want, well too full below and they didn't want me up above. LAUGH Talking about tapes and old Wilf Carter tapes.

Lawrence : The whole deal all the way through during the war and all the way through running a sawmill . Well that's how come I didn't have to go.

June : Oh did you run a sawmill during the war?

Lawrence : Yeah , that and the farming, that's the only thing that kept me out , plus it was only ..What the hell was it, three, two , two and a half years of it, that's before it ended.

June Grinde : Started in '39 and ended in '45.

Lawrence : Yeah I know but I mean, I wasn't of age.

June Grinde : No

June : Yeah, just at the very last you were age but then you were running a sawmill so...

Lawrence : Yeah they classed me as....

June Grinde : He had two brothers...

Lawrence : I had two brothers .......END OF TAPE